Recently, Quentin sat down with Emma Bennison to find out a bit more about our newest board member. Emma outlined some of the biggest challenges facing blind users accessing technology, and how NVDA helps. Emma also explained how she came to be on the NV Access Board, and exactly what the Board does.
Below the YouTube link is a full transcript of the conversation.
Transcript:
Quentin (hereafter, Q) Today we are speaking with Emma Bennison well regarded as a leader in the blindness sector in Australia, and the newest member of the NV Access board, which we’ll come to. Welcome Emma!
Emma (hereafter, E): Thank you.
Q: I wonder if we could start, please with a little about who Emma Bennison is?
E: Ok sure, I’m a parent, I’m a disability advocate, have been for over 20 years, and I’ve held three CEO roles in disability-related organisations. Most recently, Blind Citizens Australia. And I’m currently the Chief Innovation Officer at Life Without Barriers, which is one of Australia’s largest community service providers.
Q: Wow, that is a very impressive CV. Now, you’ve been a leader in the blindness sector for a long time. What have you found are some of the biggest barriers to blind users being able to access technology?
E: Cost is one of the biggest ones, I think. There is often an assumption that people just have a spare couple of grand lying around. A lot of blind people in particular struggle with cost, costs of blindness. And it’s a particular issue I think because of the really high levels of unemployment in the blind community. We’ve got significant barriers to employment and so it’s a real challenge. I think the NDIS is having an impact on that, but the NDIS is not available to people over the age of sixty-five, and blindness is an aging disability. I think the statistic is something like 70% of people who are blind or vision impaired are over sixty-five, so it’s a real problem, and I think the other issue that I see a lot is just people not knowing how to use the technology that they’re given or that they have access to. And also given the mobile nature of our lives these days, the other big problem is that if people want to install a screen reader on a different computer, a lot of times they have to be authorised, and you can lose authorisation keys and all that kind of thing, so those are probably the biggest barriers.
Q: They are definitely themes we’ve also heard echoed in why people use and love NVDA. Now for those outside Australia, the NDIS is the National Disability Insurance Scheme, it is a government funded program in Australia which helps cover the cost of supports, technology and assistance with daily living for anyone with any major disability, not only blindness. However, it does have limitations in eligibility.
E: That’s right, and sorry I should have made that clear. There is one other barrier actually in terms of technology use I think is really important to mention and that is the proliferation of inaccessible household technologies, particularly the building in of touch screens into things like washing machines, into cooking appliances, all those sorts of things. But that also has a flow-on effect outside the home, we have touch screen EFTPOS devices and kiosks in airports and all sorts of things, so I think that is a really significant barrier as well.
Q: Oh definitely, touch screens are everywhere these days. Touch screens can be made to be accessible, but if not considered from the outset it can take extra work, and cost and is often skipped and even for sighted users, touch screens tend to be more complex.
E: That’s right, and also if you’ve got an older person, they might not have vision loss, but if you’ve got an older person who’s trying to use a touch screen device, like an EFTPOS machine or even a phone, that can be really challenging, or someone with an acquired brain injury who maybe can’t recall the instructions. Those are some of the things people I think don’t necessarily think about or they definitely don’t think about when they’re designing technology.
Q: Oh, you’re absolutely right. Now one technology we did try to consider a range of users when we created, was NVDA. Emma when did you first hear about NVDA?
E: It was fairly early on in its development. And I remember thinking “Oh that’s such a good idea” like I loved the concept, right from the word go that people, particularly in developing countries, but even people who were unemployed or people who couldn’t afford a screen reader could have access. I just thought that was the best thing ever.
Q: Yes! That’s one of the reasons why we’re so passionate about NVDA as well. When did you switch over to using NVDA full time yourself?
E: So, I think it was about 2017. And I was changing jobs, I was going to Blind Citizens Australia, and I was having a lot of trouble with getting Jaws to authorise, I kept losing authorisation keys, you know it was just getting beyond irritating. And one of my colleagues who is also blind, said to me “look, NVDA is worth another look, he said it’s actually gotten way better it’s really good. He actually said to me he thought that in some cases it was preferable to some of the other screen readers. And I thought “Oh well, ok he knows what he’s talking about. I might give it another look” and I did, and I think one of the other things I had assumed, wrongly, was that I might have to learn a whole heap of new keystrokes, and it would be a big learning curve. But it wasn’t, and a lot of the keystrokes were actually identical to what I’d been using, and I just, once I started, I was just like this is brilliant, I’m not going back. and I thought I don’t know why everyone’s not using it, this is brilliant. And because of the organisation that I worked for; I got a lot of opportunity to talk to blind people as you can imagine. So, I just became a bit evangelical about NVDA, I’d tell anyone who would listen, that it was great and why on earth were people still worrying about trying to authorise Jaws. I went from one extreme to the other very quickly.
Fantastic, and we are very glad to have your support. And in fact, it goes beyond that, because you have recently joined the board of NV Access. So firstly, welcome!
E: Thank you.
Q: And secondly, how did that come about? What led up to you joining the Board?
E: I should say, I have known Jamie in particular, but also Mick as well, the founders of NV Access, I’ve known them for a very long time. I used to go to the National Braille Music Camp, which is where Mick and Jamie met. Actually, Jamie and I even learnt piano from the same piano teacher, so that is kind of a weird fun fact. So, I had known both of them, and I’d known about their work and just really, had a huge amount of admiration for the work they were doing for a very long time. And I’d always thought, maybe once I leave Blind Citizens Australia and I stop doing CEO work and I’ve got a bit more headspace. I’d really love to do something to help with this work. And so, I just kind of was just so excited when I got the opportunity to join the Board. I hadn’t necessarily thought I’d join the Board, I just thought maybe there is something I can do, I don’t know – but whatever it is, I want to do it! So, I was so excited, and still am, very excited. I just love it. I feel like I’ve definitely got governance skills that I can bring to it. But I feel like I’m just learning so much. It’s such a different organisation to any other that I’ve been on the Board of. I’ve been on lots of boards, and am on other boards, but I’m just enjoying so much getting to see how it works and just the incredible skill of the people who – every single person who works in the organisation, is just so skilled, and I just find that absolutely fantastic. I was going to say inspirational, but we can’t use that word in disability circles these days! But I do, I just find it really motivating and exciting just to be a part of. I feel like it gives a lot more to me than I give to it, so yeah, it’s fantastic, I’m really excited.
Q: That sounds really rewarding, thank you. Now NV Access is a registered charity in Australia, overseen by a Board of Directors – of which you are one – now for those who aren’t familiar with that structure. Can you explain please, how does it work, what does the Board of Directors do?
E: So, the Board of Directors is very much focussed on the strategic direction and governance of the organisation. So, governance being kind of having oversight of the organisation and making really key decisions about where the organisation might be heading from a strategic perspective. So we certainly don’t make decisions about day to day operations or day to day decisions, that’s the province of the staff, but in terms of where the organisation is going strategically, making sure that it has sufficient resources to do the work that it needs to do, you know looking at fundraising and development opportunities, those sorts of things. And then making sure that we are complying with legislative requirements and governance requirements and not for profit organisation requirements, those sorts of things. So those are probably the key activities that the board does, and so because it’s a small organisation we probably get our hands a little bit more dirty than what some other boards do. If you’re on the board of a larger organisation the division tends to be much more black and white, but yeah, we strive very much to stay in our lane and leave the actual day to day work of the organisation to the staff who are very smart people.
I think the other role that I see that I have as a director, and I think the others on the board would agree with me, is to be an ambassador for NVDA. Which as I say is not difficult for me because I’ve been doing it all the time. I feel like I have a real responsibility to make sure that wherever I can, whenever I have the opportunity, I’m sharing the work we do with people and making sure that people are aware of the work that we do and the product. That’s important too.
Q: Well, you’re doing an excellent job.
E: Thank you.
Q: Emma Bennison thank you very much for your time today.
E: Well thank you for that, I appreciate that opportunity.
Q: It has been a pleasure.